A while ago someone posted the question "Why do you go to church" on their status on Facebook. I, like many others, gave my version of an answer. Mine said in essence "I go because we can do more good for others as a group than as individuals" I truly believe this. (I do think it's good to have Christian friends/ group that will challenge you and to discuss the Bible/ideas with. However you can have these relationship outside of a church building.)
So what do you do when opportunities to help those outside the church aren't available to you? What do you do when most of the ministries at the church are inward focused? And is it worth leaving behind relationships that mean a lot to you in order to go somewhere you feel will allow you serve God as part of a body of Christ?
To be honest I've really been struggling with these questions. I love a lot of people in our church. We have some close relationships with those that attend there. However, except for Angel Food Ministries, the Domestic Violence Shelter collections and Food Pantry drives (the first two we started) all the ministries I can think of are about people already in the church. And there doesn't seem to be any initiative to serve those outside the church. We are told to invite others in but not to go out and serve and love those that won't enter our doors. For instance, our teens have lots of fund raisers in order to do lots of things that are all about their entertainment. Personally, I think they would learn a lot more about Jesus by serving the homeless/poor/hungry than going to yet another retreat/camp/whatever. They go rock climbing but never sweep the rocky doorstep of an elderly person. Same with our children's program. I want Dani to grow up learning the body of Christ is there to serve and love others. It's not about us.
And I don't think we need to go to church to "be fed". We are all responsible for our own personal growth. Yes we can learn from others but it is ultimately our own personal walk. I do my own study at home from the Bible, books that challenge me and from several close friendships that also challenge me and allow me to question and grow. This is not a reason to stay in my thoughts.
However, there are people we love here. CJ is mentoring a teenager and that relationship is blossoming into something great. I have a relationship also that kind of has that mentoring quality and both of these relationships would probably suffer if we left. There's also some relationships I could stand to lose. They are unhealthy and would be good to get away from. (I will not explain this, just trust me)
We are not jumping into leaving and we aren't even looking at other churches yet. I think our relationships are holding us right now but it's a struggle. Does anyone else struggle with this? Is our situation so unique?
Wednesday, September 1, 2010
Sunday, August 22, 2010
Tan vs Khaki
I have an issue I want to vent about!
Seriously??? Do you think we are made of money? You know how much money we make! What am I talking about? I'm talking about the new dress code they are implementing at CJ's and my work. They are switching all new shirts and have said they only allow black or TAN pants not khaki, only tan. What the heck is the difference??? CJ was told the other day his pants were khaki not tan in color. When he told me this I just wanted to throw something at his boss. Seriously?? You know what CJ makes, in fact you set his salary. There is no way we can afford for him to buy all new shirts AND pants just to satisfy your whim of a new "sharper" dress code. That's all this is to him! He says he wants to get back to a sharper look. Well I'm sorry that a khaki pant, dress shoes, shirt and tie are not sharp enough for you! CJ is going to be given 2 new shirts and that's it. The rest we have to purchase out of our own pocket and they are not cheap! We get nada to help with the cost of replacing pants. I'm sorry but we do not have an extra $200 to go drop on new clothes all at once! The new dress code starts next week. I SOOOOO WANT TO STRANGLE SOMEONE RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I, as a part-timer, get one shirt and luckily that is going to work as I only work one day a week. I do not care if I have to replace my pants. I ain't gonna! I stand behind a counter and no one cares about my damn pants!
PLUS we now can't wear our own sweatshirts or coats around the store even when we are working outside. We have to purchase fleece jackets. Not only fleece jackets, BLACK fleece. CJ purchased several jackets last year when they said he could no longer wear his jacket when in the cooler (he worked as a dairy manager so he was in a big fridge much of the time). So now 2 out of the 3 we purchased (NOT cheap) no longer will work. The one black one we did purchased, was stolen out of his cooler so we have to buy another one! I AM SOOOO FRUSTRATED!!!!
So thank you, you freakin' managers for allowing me to work for you for a whole month just so I can afford to pay for new clothes so that I will look "sharp" when you look at me from your nice new car we can not afford to buy with what you pay us.
Seriously??? Do you think we are made of money? You know how much money we make! What am I talking about? I'm talking about the new dress code they are implementing at CJ's and my work. They are switching all new shirts and have said they only allow black or TAN pants not khaki, only tan. What the heck is the difference??? CJ was told the other day his pants were khaki not tan in color. When he told me this I just wanted to throw something at his boss. Seriously?? You know what CJ makes, in fact you set his salary. There is no way we can afford for him to buy all new shirts AND pants just to satisfy your whim of a new "sharper" dress code. That's all this is to him! He says he wants to get back to a sharper look. Well I'm sorry that a khaki pant, dress shoes, shirt and tie are not sharp enough for you! CJ is going to be given 2 new shirts and that's it. The rest we have to purchase out of our own pocket and they are not cheap! We get nada to help with the cost of replacing pants. I'm sorry but we do not have an extra $200 to go drop on new clothes all at once! The new dress code starts next week. I SOOOOO WANT TO STRANGLE SOMEONE RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I, as a part-timer, get one shirt and luckily that is going to work as I only work one day a week. I do not care if I have to replace my pants. I ain't gonna! I stand behind a counter and no one cares about my damn pants!
PLUS we now can't wear our own sweatshirts or coats around the store even when we are working outside. We have to purchase fleece jackets. Not only fleece jackets, BLACK fleece. CJ purchased several jackets last year when they said he could no longer wear his jacket when in the cooler (he worked as a dairy manager so he was in a big fridge much of the time). So now 2 out of the 3 we purchased (NOT cheap) no longer will work. The one black one we did purchased, was stolen out of his cooler so we have to buy another one! I AM SOOOO FRUSTRATED!!!!
So thank you, you freakin' managers for allowing me to work for you for a whole month just so I can afford to pay for new clothes so that I will look "sharp" when you look at me from your nice new car we can not afford to buy with what you pay us.
Wednesday, August 18, 2010
The Great Iowa State Fair
CJ and I decided to take a little trip to the fair this year. As we were talking about the possibility of going last week, we got to talking about when the last time was we went. We figured out it was 10 flippin' year ago!! Seriously??? I used to work there every year as a teen and we went pretty often before that as a kid. We couldn't believe it had been that long. So we just HAD to come.
We went today and had a blast. What a great family day it was. We were there by 9:30am and stayed till 4pm. Dani did great! She loved the horses (wanted to ride one), was a bit freaked out but the deep-voiced sheep that baa'ed as he was getting sheared just a few feet away from us and thought the pigs were lazy because all they were doing was sleeping. She liked the milk from the Dairy Barn and LOVED the Big Slide! We were going to try to get away without going to the Midway but of course that didn't work. We spent 2 hours in there and would have been longer if we didn't need lunch so bad. It was 1:30 before we finally dragged her away from the rides to eat. Then we went to the butterfly house and the "farm" for little kids. It was soooo neat. They walk kids through the whole process in an interactive way of house food goes from seed to fuel to crops to the grocery store. She rode a horse (the pony rides), got to see a 2 hr old calf, piglets and hatching chicks, and got to meet Clifford the Big Red Dog. She was in heaven.
Of course, CJ and enjoyed ourselves too. We were thrilled that several buildings that we used to swelter in were now air conditioned and we still love the gyros in the triangle. It's so fun to see the fair through the eyes of your child. Everything was new to her and so interesting. She was so good. We only had 2 meltdowns and they really weren't that bad. And for Dani 2 is very minor. And they pretty much made sense in the context she was in. First she wanted to ride rides before we were ready. And second, she didn't want to put her "fruit" from the Farm in baskets because she knew she wouldn't get them back and she loves her plastic food at home. Plus the basket thing was just past nap time so she was bound to melt down sooner or later.
Bonus, we got to spend some time with some family tonight that I haven't seen in a year. Thanks Glen and Julie for putting us up! CJ said today walking down Grand Ave (in the fairgrounds) "We need to make this an annual trip". I couldn't agree more.
We went today and had a blast. What a great family day it was. We were there by 9:30am and stayed till 4pm. Dani did great! She loved the horses (wanted to ride one), was a bit freaked out but the deep-voiced sheep that baa'ed as he was getting sheared just a few feet away from us and thought the pigs were lazy because all they were doing was sleeping. She liked the milk from the Dairy Barn and LOVED the Big Slide! We were going to try to get away without going to the Midway but of course that didn't work. We spent 2 hours in there and would have been longer if we didn't need lunch so bad. It was 1:30 before we finally dragged her away from the rides to eat. Then we went to the butterfly house and the "farm" for little kids. It was soooo neat. They walk kids through the whole process in an interactive way of house food goes from seed to fuel to crops to the grocery store. She rode a horse (the pony rides), got to see a 2 hr old calf, piglets and hatching chicks, and got to meet Clifford the Big Red Dog. She was in heaven.
Of course, CJ and enjoyed ourselves too. We were thrilled that several buildings that we used to swelter in were now air conditioned and we still love the gyros in the triangle. It's so fun to see the fair through the eyes of your child. Everything was new to her and so interesting. She was so good. We only had 2 meltdowns and they really weren't that bad. And for Dani 2 is very minor. And they pretty much made sense in the context she was in. First she wanted to ride rides before we were ready. And second, she didn't want to put her "fruit" from the Farm in baskets because she knew she wouldn't get them back and she loves her plastic food at home. Plus the basket thing was just past nap time so she was bound to melt down sooner or later.
Bonus, we got to spend some time with some family tonight that I haven't seen in a year. Thanks Glen and Julie for putting us up! CJ said today walking down Grand Ave (in the fairgrounds) "We need to make this an annual trip". I couldn't agree more.
Friday, August 6, 2010
Passion Party
I just had a great girls night out last night! Laura and I went to a Passion Party at Jilli's house (my SIL). It was a lot of fun!
It was so funny to watch some of the girls faces when the consultant would bring out these huge vibrators with multiple speeds and stuff. My MIL was there and she was one of the funniest. Although she did great and seemed to be pretty much at ease, I think she was keenly aware her baby girl was there, and me, her baby boy's wife. But it was still a lot of fun. It was made even better by the fact I took Laura with me. I had to convince her that a night out was what she needed when she tried to back out due to a stressful situation she's in right now, but once she agreed to go, she had a ball. Lots of girly talk and laughs! Just what the doctor ordered. And then of course both our husbands were glad to see us and our purchases walk in the door! he he, sorry had to put that in.
I'm going to host a party Sept 16th. If you want to come or order, let me know. By the way, the party was very tasteful so if you're a little more prudish than some, you'd still fit right in. :)
It was so funny to watch some of the girls faces when the consultant would bring out these huge vibrators with multiple speeds and stuff. My MIL was there and she was one of the funniest. Although she did great and seemed to be pretty much at ease, I think she was keenly aware her baby girl was there, and me, her baby boy's wife. But it was still a lot of fun. It was made even better by the fact I took Laura with me. I had to convince her that a night out was what she needed when she tried to back out due to a stressful situation she's in right now, but once she agreed to go, she had a ball. Lots of girly talk and laughs! Just what the doctor ordered. And then of course both our husbands were glad to see us and our purchases walk in the door! he he, sorry had to put that in.
I'm going to host a party Sept 16th. If you want to come or order, let me know. By the way, the party was very tasteful so if you're a little more prudish than some, you'd still fit right in. :)
our first VBS
Well, Dani is officially old enough to go to "school". Vacation Bible School. It's been great but just a teensy bit bittersweet. She's actually old enough to go to VBS??? When did this happen? She's done well, I've heard. Last night she got put in time out twice but she was a bear yesterday (according to CJ who was also a bear --they were home alone together all day hmmmmm) so that doesn't really surprise me. I am actually looking forward to the VBS program for the first time since I was IN one. Break out the video camera!
Friday, July 9, 2010
what do we do with these?
Recently I heard someone liken those (like me) that believe America's founding fathers were not what we would define "Christian", to those that deny the Holocaust. Needless to say I was extremely offended and saddened by this. I realize that many of our Founding Fathers said "religious" things in public forums that would support the "Christian" claim. However, what do we do with these quotes?
UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION
The First Amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."
Article VI, Section 3
"...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
JOHN ADAMS
"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"
-letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson
"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
-Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11
"Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, 'this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.'"
-a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756)
JAMES MADISON
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
-"A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785
"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
-"A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
-letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774
"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries."
-1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches
THOMAS JEFFERSON
"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose."
- to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
- letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787
"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests."
- to John Adams, 1803
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- to Baron von Humboldt, 1813
"Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no more of that system (Christianity) than did he himself."
-in his private journal, Feb. 1800
It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism, he preaches the efficacy of repentance toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it."
- to Carey, 1816
"The priests of the superstition, a bloodthirsty race, are as cruel and remorseless as the being whom they represented as the family God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, and the local God of Israel. That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself in that lore."
- to Story, Aug. 4, 1820
"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man. But compare with these the demoralizing dogmas of Calvin.
1. That there are three Gods.
2. That good works, or the love of our neighbor, is nothing.
3. That faith is every thing, and the more incomprehensible the proposition, the more merit the faith.
4. That reason in religion is of unlawful use.
5. That God, from the beginning, elected certain individuals to be saved, and certain others to be damned; and that no crimes of the former can damn them; no virtues of the latter save."
- to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822
"Difference of opinion is advantageous in religion. The several sects perform the office of a common censor over each other. Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
-"Notes on Virginia"
The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come, when the mystical generation [birth] of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation [birth] of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
- to John Adams, Apr. 11, 1823
"No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever."
-Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
"... I am not afraid of priests. They have tried upon me all their various batteries of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering. I have contemplated their order from the Magi of the East to the Saints of the West and I have found no difference of character, but of more or less caution, in proportion to their information or ignorance on whom their interested duperies were to be played off. Their sway in New England is indeed formidable. No mind beyond mediocrity dares there to develop itself."
- letter to Horatio Spofford, 1816
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law."
-letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, 1814
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
-letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT
"The Complete Jefferson" by Saul K. Padover, pp 518-519
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
From Franklin's autobiography, p. 66:
"...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
From Franklin's autobiography, p. 66:
"My parents had given me betimes religious impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself"
THOMAS PAINE
From The Age of Reason, pp. 89:
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all."
From The Age of Reason:
"All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
From The Age of Reason:
"What is it the Bible teaches us? -- rapine, cruelty, and murder."
There are many more quotes and information on these and other Founding Fathers. How can we, as Christians, bury our heads in the sand and "forget" these quotes?
One last thing, in the same conversation that this person likened me and others with my same beliefs with those that deny the Holocaust, they said "Actions speak louder than words" This is so true. Do a little research on the lives of these people and most of them certainly did not live "Christian" lives. Besides the fact that the very constitution they drafted denied basic rights to women and black people. They also oversaw the slaughter of millions of Indians and started the slave trade to pad their own pockets. They saw some people (anyone other than the white man) as less than human and not worth even basic rights under in this new country. Does that sound Christ-like or "Christian" to you?
UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION
The First Amendment
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."
Article VI, Section 3
"...no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."
JOHN ADAMS
"Can a free government possibly exist with the Roman Catholic religion?"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"
-letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved-- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!"
-letter to Thomas Jefferson
"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion."
-Adams signed the Treaty of Tripoli (June 7, 1797). Article 11
"Twenty times in the course of my late reading, have I been upon the point of breaking out, 'this would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it.'"
-a letter to Charles Cushing (October 19, 1756)
JAMES MADISON
"What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not."
-"A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785
"Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."
-"A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."
-letter to Wm. Bradford, April 1, 1774
"The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe in blood for centuries."
-1803 letter objecting use of gov. land for churches
THOMAS JEFFERSON
"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot ... they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer engine for their purpose."
- to Horatio Spafford, March 17, 1814
"Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are servilely crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear."
- letter to Peter Carr, Aug. 10, 1787
"It is too late in the day for men of sincerity to pretend they believe in the Platonic mysticisms that three are one, and one is three; and yet that the one is not three, and the three are not one. But this constitutes the craft, the power and the profit of the priests."
- to John Adams, 1803
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
- to Baron von Humboldt, 1813
"Gouverneur Morris had often told me that General Washington believed no more of that system (Christianity) than did he himself."
-in his private journal, Feb. 1800
It is not to be understood that I am with him (Jesus Christ) in all his doctrines. I am a Materialist; he takes the side of Spiritualism, he preaches the efficacy of repentance toward forgiveness of sin; I require a counterpoise of good works to redeem it."
- to Carey, 1816
"The priests of the superstition, a bloodthirsty race, are as cruel and remorseless as the being whom they represented as the family God of Abraham, of Isaac and of Jacob, and the local God of Israel. That Jesus did not mean to impose himself on mankind as the son of God, physically speaking, I have been convinced by the writings of men more learned than myself in that lore."
- to Story, Aug. 4, 1820
"The doctrines of Jesus are simple, and tend all to the happiness of man. But compare with these the demoralizing dogmas of Calvin.
1. That there are three Gods.
2. That good works, or the love of our neighbor, is nothing.
3. That faith is every thing, and the more incomprehensible the proposition, the more merit the faith.
4. That reason in religion is of unlawful use.
5. That God, from the beginning, elected certain individuals to be saved, and certain others to be damned; and that no crimes of the former can damn them; no virtues of the latter save."
- to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822
"Difference of opinion is advantageous in religion. The several sects perform the office of a common censor over each other. Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth."
-"Notes on Virginia"
The truth is, that the greatest enemies of the doctrine of Jesus are those, calling themselves the expositors of them, who have perverted them to the structure of a system of fancy absolutely incomprehensible, and without any foundation in his genuine words. And the day will come, when the mystical generation [birth] of Jesus, by the Supreme Being as his father, in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation [birth] of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
- to John Adams, Apr. 11, 1823
"No man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever."
-Virginia Act for Religious Freedom
"... I am not afraid of priests. They have tried upon me all their various batteries of pious whining, hypocritical canting, lying and slandering. I have contemplated their order from the Magi of the East to the Saints of the West and I have found no difference of character, but of more or less caution, in proportion to their information or ignorance on whom their interested duperies were to be played off. Their sway in New England is indeed formidable. No mind beyond mediocrity dares there to develop itself."
- letter to Horatio Spofford, 1816
"Christianity neither is, nor ever was, a part of the Common Law."
-letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, 1814
"Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
-letter to Danbury Baptist Association, CT
"The Complete Jefferson" by Saul K. Padover, pp 518-519
BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
From Franklin's autobiography, p. 66:
"...Some books against Deism fell into my hands....It happened that they wrought an effect on me quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quote to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations, in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."
From Franklin's autobiography, p. 66:
"My parents had given me betimes religious impressions, and I received from my infancy a pious education in the principles of Calvinism. But scarcely was I arrived at fifteen years of age, when, after having doubted in turn of different tenets, according as I found them combated in the different books that I read, I began to doubt of Revelation itself"
THOMAS PAINE
From The Age of Reason, pp. 89:
"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of....Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and of my own part, I disbelieve them all."
From The Age of Reason:
"All natural institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
From The Age of Reason:
"What is it the Bible teaches us? -- rapine, cruelty, and murder."
There are many more quotes and information on these and other Founding Fathers. How can we, as Christians, bury our heads in the sand and "forget" these quotes?
One last thing, in the same conversation that this person likened me and others with my same beliefs with those that deny the Holocaust, they said "Actions speak louder than words" This is so true. Do a little research on the lives of these people and most of them certainly did not live "Christian" lives. Besides the fact that the very constitution they drafted denied basic rights to women and black people. They also oversaw the slaughter of millions of Indians and started the slave trade to pad their own pockets. They saw some people (anyone other than the white man) as less than human and not worth even basic rights under in this new country. Does that sound Christ-like or "Christian" to you?
Friday, July 2, 2010
Immigration's real "criminals"
I've been reading a few blogs and some news stories about immigration lately. I had some thoughts come into my mind while I was cleaning today and had to put it down. First of all, I believe as Christians, we have a responsibility to love and serve anyone we come in contact with, especially the poor and downtrodden. Most illegal immigrants would fall into this category. However, I am not going to tackle the "Christian" views in this post, I'm going to address it from a "political" viewpoint.
First of all, open your mind with me for just a second and imagine you are in the immigrants shoes... You live in a country where, despite all your best efforts, you have been unable to make a living for your family. Your children are always hungry and you can't stand seeing them get sick from malnutrition that never gets resolved. A man comes and promises a job in the US that will make all your dreams come true. So you make a gut-wrenching decision to leave them behind, not knowing when you will see them again, if ever, for the decision to sneak across the border is fraught with danger. So you kiss them goodbye and promise to send home all the money you can, as soon as you can.
Once you get into America, your "contact" brings you to an "employer" who gives you a "job". You work all day, into the night and barely have enough left after paying for your own scanty meals, to send anything home. But you keep at it because at least this work is better than no work back home.
You soon realize no one could legally make someone work in these conditions. No American citizen could be forced to work like this. A few months in, you'd love to speak out against this employer that abuses you for little pay, while his bank account gets more and more bloated to satisfy his appetite for pleasures your family has no hope of ever seeing. Resentment builds but you have no way to bring justice to this person. If you show the slightest hint of rebellion, he'll have you deported and it's back to your children starving. So you keep at it.
Imagine all this, and then imagine the country you're in calls you a criminal. They ignore the fact you had no way to get in legally (95% of people that come in illegally would never get approved in our current system), and your children were starving. They ignore the fact that you took no job they would have worked themselves. They ignore the "Employer" that made it possible to get the job in the first place and then took advantage of your illegal status to exploit and control you in order to pad his own pockets.
Who is the REAL criminal in this scenario? Why are the men/women that "employ" these illegal immigrants never talked about in all the immigration policies debates? If they are, I've not heard it. This seems like such a simple solution in my eyes. Shut down the slave labor that promises hope of work not available to them in Mexico and for what would they continue to sneak in? I know, I know, it's not "simple" but neither is fencing and patrolling the whole border! I'm thinking focusing on the employers would still be easier than that!
Shut down the greed and we'd shut down the illegal border crossings. And then once that happens, we Christians better be ALL OVER the fact we need to be helping those that still have no work in Mexico. We can't forget the poor just because we no longer deal with them as illegal immigrants.
First of all, open your mind with me for just a second and imagine you are in the immigrants shoes... You live in a country where, despite all your best efforts, you have been unable to make a living for your family. Your children are always hungry and you can't stand seeing them get sick from malnutrition that never gets resolved. A man comes and promises a job in the US that will make all your dreams come true. So you make a gut-wrenching decision to leave them behind, not knowing when you will see them again, if ever, for the decision to sneak across the border is fraught with danger. So you kiss them goodbye and promise to send home all the money you can, as soon as you can.
Once you get into America, your "contact" brings you to an "employer" who gives you a "job". You work all day, into the night and barely have enough left after paying for your own scanty meals, to send anything home. But you keep at it because at least this work is better than no work back home.
You soon realize no one could legally make someone work in these conditions. No American citizen could be forced to work like this. A few months in, you'd love to speak out against this employer that abuses you for little pay, while his bank account gets more and more bloated to satisfy his appetite for pleasures your family has no hope of ever seeing. Resentment builds but you have no way to bring justice to this person. If you show the slightest hint of rebellion, he'll have you deported and it's back to your children starving. So you keep at it.
Imagine all this, and then imagine the country you're in calls you a criminal. They ignore the fact you had no way to get in legally (95% of people that come in illegally would never get approved in our current system), and your children were starving. They ignore the fact that you took no job they would have worked themselves. They ignore the "Employer" that made it possible to get the job in the first place and then took advantage of your illegal status to exploit and control you in order to pad his own pockets.
Who is the REAL criminal in this scenario? Why are the men/women that "employ" these illegal immigrants never talked about in all the immigration policies debates? If they are, I've not heard it. This seems like such a simple solution in my eyes. Shut down the slave labor that promises hope of work not available to them in Mexico and for what would they continue to sneak in? I know, I know, it's not "simple" but neither is fencing and patrolling the whole border! I'm thinking focusing on the employers would still be easier than that!
Shut down the greed and we'd shut down the illegal border crossings. And then once that happens, we Christians better be ALL OVER the fact we need to be helping those that still have no work in Mexico. We can't forget the poor just because we no longer deal with them as illegal immigrants.
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